“Mr. Judd then goes on to argue that tikanga is not law.”
Mutatis Mutandis, mâtauranga Mâori is not science. To be sure, just about every culture through the ages and across the planet has seen humans interact with their environment. Without such interaction, they would simply have not survived. And survival obviously is paramount for any group of people.
Our traits of intelligence and the ability to institutionalise collective knowledge in multiple ways ensures degrees of survival - to a point. For even here there are many examples of the need to alter our root paradigms over time. There’s ever the interaction of the theoretical and the empirical, the observational and the hypothetical.
Just so, genuine science has by degrees in a specific culture developed. Its plausibility structures are a necessary prerequisite for this to occur moreover. And given its very success in that very culture, it has now become a series of global institutions. This is one of the curious fruits of colonial expansion over the past 300 years, from Europe to the rest of the world. Although clearly this is not the place to rehearse the history of mercantilism and Empire building in general, with its rather mixed blessings. All of us are human beings after all!!
An addendum - from popular culture. Loved the necessary discussion around the Doctrine of Discovery! The glorious film from the 1980s, The Mission, concerns itself (inter alia) with what territory might be Spanish and what Portuguese. Or perhaps some in the 21st Century still don’t realise that Brazilians speak Portuguese and the rest of the continent Spanish… 😉
Ah "The Mission" - a beautiful movie with a tragic and poignant ending. Everything about the movie was excellent and the music soundtrack (Ennio Morricone) is one of the best. The main theme is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw1HcN7VlhA and someone has managed to put the full movie up on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vMf4Zw1LIw
David, for some time now you have most usefully (for those who have the benefit of unclosed minds) been commenting on matters of moment that bear upon the future prospects of our nation as one of diversity woven into unity.
What you have said should be on a platform that is widely read.
An excellent and educational article thank you. My only critique is that imho you were far too gracious toward Prof Kelsey. I’m no lawyer, but I am unable to find any Treaty guarantee to preserve tikanga as a ‘system of law’(sic). Her anecdotal appeal (‘my students liked it’) hardly seems robust and the argument that Maori had a ‘legal system’ also fails if one expects the law to be just & consistent & clear. Not sure ‘Utu’ counts. Otherwise I learnt plenty from your informed and well articulated perspective. Thank you.
excellent analysis, Warren and I are in U K about to go to World Bar conference and hear the wild fascination lawyers have for cancelling women( the Irish constitution) and carbon emissions and challenges in rights’ laws and tort ( a l a Mike Bush recent Supreme Court decision) I will write and publish on LinkedI n when I return…have to say I am not looking forward to it but an open ear is Queen at the mo
Isn’t the introduction of tikanga into law also a breach of the Treaty of Waitangi? Article 3 confers on all ordinary people of New Zealand the same rights and duties of British subjects. Not rights and duties under Tikanga.
Good morning John - I have purposely avoided engaging with the substance of Gary Judd's complaint. I was more concerned with the points of view of those who would rather that he did not hold (or express) those views nor that they should be published at all. It is as though his views were heresy. The point of the article is more about freedom of expression and how one person can engage in the democratic processes.
Your question about tikanga narrowly framed within the context of Art 3 of the Treaty. But the way that custom and customary rules become law by a gradual process is of much wider scope. You must recall that law is dynamic although it changes more on a geological scale rather than in "internet time". In essence most of our law is rooted in custom or customary practices and mores. It is a big issue and books have been written on the subject. Too complex for a mere Halfling
“Mr. Judd then goes on to argue that tikanga is not law.”
Mutatis Mutandis, mâtauranga Mâori is not science. To be sure, just about every culture through the ages and across the planet has seen humans interact with their environment. Without such interaction, they would simply have not survived. And survival obviously is paramount for any group of people.
Our traits of intelligence and the ability to institutionalise collective knowledge in multiple ways ensures degrees of survival - to a point. For even here there are many examples of the need to alter our root paradigms over time. There’s ever the interaction of the theoretical and the empirical, the observational and the hypothetical.
Just so, genuine science has by degrees in a specific culture developed. Its plausibility structures are a necessary prerequisite for this to occur moreover. And given its very success in that very culture, it has now become a series of global institutions. This is one of the curious fruits of colonial expansion over the past 300 years, from Europe to the rest of the world. Although clearly this is not the place to rehearse the history of mercantilism and Empire building in general, with its rather mixed blessings. All of us are human beings after all!!
An addendum - from popular culture. Loved the necessary discussion around the Doctrine of Discovery! The glorious film from the 1980s, The Mission, concerns itself (inter alia) with what territory might be Spanish and what Portuguese. Or perhaps some in the 21st Century still don’t realise that Brazilians speak Portuguese and the rest of the continent Spanish… 😉
Ah "The Mission" - a beautiful movie with a tragic and poignant ending. Everything about the movie was excellent and the music soundtrack (Ennio Morricone) is one of the best. The main theme is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw1HcN7VlhA and someone has managed to put the full movie up on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vMf4Zw1LIw
David, for some time now you have most usefully (for those who have the benefit of unclosed minds) been commenting on matters of moment that bear upon the future prospects of our nation as one of diversity woven into unity.
What you have said should be on a platform that is widely read.
Thanks
Probably a bit “long form” for most mainstream media outlets.
Very interesting debate. I hope 'Barrister X' engages - in the same spirit.
An excellent and educational article thank you. My only critique is that imho you were far too gracious toward Prof Kelsey. I’m no lawyer, but I am unable to find any Treaty guarantee to preserve tikanga as a ‘system of law’(sic). Her anecdotal appeal (‘my students liked it’) hardly seems robust and the argument that Maori had a ‘legal system’ also fails if one expects the law to be just & consistent & clear. Not sure ‘Utu’ counts. Otherwise I learnt plenty from your informed and well articulated perspective. Thank you.
excellent analysis, Warren and I are in U K about to go to World Bar conference and hear the wild fascination lawyers have for cancelling women( the Irish constitution) and carbon emissions and challenges in rights’ laws and tort ( a l a Mike Bush recent Supreme Court decision) I will write and publish on LinkedI n when I return…have to say I am not looking forward to it but an open ear is Queen at the mo
Isn’t the introduction of tikanga into law also a breach of the Treaty of Waitangi? Article 3 confers on all ordinary people of New Zealand the same rights and duties of British subjects. Not rights and duties under Tikanga.
Good morning John - I have purposely avoided engaging with the substance of Gary Judd's complaint. I was more concerned with the points of view of those who would rather that he did not hold (or express) those views nor that they should be published at all. It is as though his views were heresy. The point of the article is more about freedom of expression and how one person can engage in the democratic processes.
Your question about tikanga narrowly framed within the context of Art 3 of the Treaty. But the way that custom and customary rules become law by a gradual process is of much wider scope. You must recall that law is dynamic although it changes more on a geological scale rather than in "internet time". In essence most of our law is rooted in custom or customary practices and mores. It is a big issue and books have been written on the subject. Too complex for a mere Halfling