Thanks v much David. Yes, 'wrong-think' & plain bad manners. We used to call the likes of Jackson & Waititi 'cowboys'. Remember the 'tight 5'? Back then it was mostly harmless machismo. Now it's more sinister & a threat to democracy, much as i know that's a much-abused term. Yet woe betide those dissing marae protocol.
Pleased he mentions the BDM bill hearings..Russell et al & their pearl-clutching rudeness, revealing their shallow capture by activists & leaping to display their 'virtue'...ugh.
In their minds they are superior - born to govern over us useful fools.
From local government upwards our liberal democracy is increasingly being exposed as the Emperor who has no clothes.
The only question that remains is whether it is better to put off or bring forward the pain and chaos that its inevitable demise will bring. Is it better to dive into a glacial river to start swimming to the other side or immerse oneself inch by inch before setting off on the arduous a d painful crossing?
Whether it is nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take up arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them.
Problem is that in putting forward that suggestion (especially the second line) alarm bells will ring in the surveillance state offices of the SIS or the GCSB.
I expect a stentorian knock and will probably report further from the Gulag.
That is on the basis that the Govt and its agencies do not understand irony or sarcasm.
As discussed the other day, you are not alone in thinking that democracy is in peril. As to Hamlet, my mater so drummed those lines into me that I sense they’re engraved.
So good to have Chris Trotter's article published and to read it. Very nice to see that support for you David, as well as Chris's reminders about just what a democracy is supposed to be. He says everything and more that I and your other supporters felt on witnessing your treatment at the Select Committee hearing. I would love to know that those "on high" who have the position and power to address this kind of shocking behaviour by MP's are actually doing so.
I have a fondness for Chris Trotter. Sometimes I don't agree with him but most times he speaks sense and truth. On this one I do agree, he is calling out rudeness.
Mission accomplished by you in your submission if it exposes "what is rotten in Denmark" and I do believe it has.
Well, that video was an interesting watch. Trotter's piece was very good and I have warmed to him in recent years as he appears to have slid somewhat towards the centre and away from his previously far-too-left wing folly. He does write well though.
But the video, ah, the video. I am very sorry that you were treated with such disrespect, not because of your obvious credentials, but because you are a citizen and your argument was so reasonable and well made. Willy Jackson really is a total f***wit and we have to be honest here, the man is simply dumb. Yeah, that is ad hominem, but I can't critique his argument for he does not have one.
Waititi is a pure thug and it shames our Parliament to have someone of his character in there.
I do find that 'Maori' activist politicians can get up and spout complete nonsense, but nobody seems to hold them to account. "It's ok to not make sense, it's tikanga..." That, for sure, is the danger of 'special rights' and insulting to all other Kiwis with Maori links who do have a brain.
Thanks for making your submissions, written and oral.
What was the Chairman doing? Nothing obviously. SC’s today are just a chance for show ponies to play to the media. Imagine, however, the media outrage if Act & NZ First MPs behaved so disrespectfully toward TPM, Labour, & Green MPs. I have already gone on record saying I don’t support the TP Bill - I see the second principle as deeply flawed - however Act has every right to push it as far as they can, and Seymour must be praised for his fortitude.
Active listening, courtesy and debate that is reasoned is what should be expected in a Select com.ittee process. I have appeared in person in the past before an education ( cross party) Select Committee and got sensible and thoughtful questions asked of me and a naive one ( ftom Metiria Turei) but the atmosphere was respectful.
Thank you for forwarding that. I too share your respect for Chris Trotter - a man of real principle - and your concern for our future as a tolerant and democratic country.
I thoroughly enjoy most of Chris Trotter's posts. One wonders if he has swung from "left" to "right" of politics? Perhaps (probably) pragmatic... but then he occasionally reverts to type.
But his posts are well worth reading and they often include superior comments and opinions.
I have said for many years that I believe "democracy" as we know it has past its "use-by" value. Problems include an sadly uninformed electorate... partly due to youth (most 18-year-olds are not qualified to run their own lives much less make sensible voting decisions). But they're products of an ideological "education" instead of strict, informed pedagogy. Teachers seem no longer to have knowledge to pass on... focussing instead on indoctrination that they absorbed during their own "education".
Enfranchisement used to be viewed as a privilege that came with duties: not a "right" to be used and abused.
I've only just watched the video of your submission, and it seemed to me that Willie Jackson was implying bias in your sentencing, if not corruption. I can only echo Deborah Coddington's comment in wondering what on earth the chairman was thinking/doing. What a circus!
“For me my attitude towards democracy has shifted from an assurance that it flourished to an article of faith - I believe in it although there seems to be reducing evidence that it truly exists.” The money line. When our Speaker does not sanction those who perform a haka in the House after ripping up a Bill, by suspending them for many months, we have to acknowledge ‘Denmark’ has rotted … The only question to my mind is whether enough genuine “plebs” are sufficiently awake to oppose these destroyers of an institution centuries in the making …
It is unfortunate that you were treated disrespectfully. I see a video referred to but I didn't see it. I must admit if W Jackson featured behaving boorishly it does not surprise me. I have an intense dislike of him for a very personal reason I won't go into.
But what you and Trotter say brings to mind Voltaire even if, I now discover, he didn't say what he is most famous for saying, to whit: I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. Whether or not I really would die to defend your right to offer opinions with which I thoroughly disagree I am unsure. Would my courage fail me at the critical moment? Hopefully it does not come to that.
Thanks v much David. Yes, 'wrong-think' & plain bad manners. We used to call the likes of Jackson & Waititi 'cowboys'. Remember the 'tight 5'? Back then it was mostly harmless machismo. Now it's more sinister & a threat to democracy, much as i know that's a much-abused term. Yet woe betide those dissing marae protocol.
Pleased he mentions the BDM bill hearings..Russell et al & their pearl-clutching rudeness, revealing their shallow capture by activists & leaping to display their 'virtue'...ugh.
In their minds they are superior - born to govern over us useful fools.
From local government upwards our liberal democracy is increasingly being exposed as the Emperor who has no clothes.
The only question that remains is whether it is better to put off or bring forward the pain and chaos that its inevitable demise will bring. Is it better to dive into a glacial river to start swimming to the other side or immerse oneself inch by inch before setting off on the arduous a d painful crossing?
Alternatively you could adopt Hamlets query
Whether it is nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take up arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them.
Problem is that in putting forward that suggestion (especially the second line) alarm bells will ring in the surveillance state offices of the SIS or the GCSB.
I expect a stentorian knock and will probably report further from the Gulag.
That is on the basis that the Govt and its agencies do not understand irony or sarcasm.
As discussed the other day, you are not alone in thinking that democracy is in peril. As to Hamlet, my mater so drummed those lines into me that I sense they’re engraved.
So good to have Chris Trotter's article published and to read it. Very nice to see that support for you David, as well as Chris's reminders about just what a democracy is supposed to be. He says everything and more that I and your other supporters felt on witnessing your treatment at the Select Committee hearing. I would love to know that those "on high" who have the position and power to address this kind of shocking behaviour by MP's are actually doing so.
I have a fondness for Chris Trotter. Sometimes I don't agree with him but most times he speaks sense and truth. On this one I do agree, he is calling out rudeness.
Mission accomplished by you in your submission if it exposes "what is rotten in Denmark" and I do believe it has.
Well, that video was an interesting watch. Trotter's piece was very good and I have warmed to him in recent years as he appears to have slid somewhat towards the centre and away from his previously far-too-left wing folly. He does write well though.
But the video, ah, the video. I am very sorry that you were treated with such disrespect, not because of your obvious credentials, but because you are a citizen and your argument was so reasonable and well made. Willy Jackson really is a total f***wit and we have to be honest here, the man is simply dumb. Yeah, that is ad hominem, but I can't critique his argument for he does not have one.
Waititi is a pure thug and it shames our Parliament to have someone of his character in there.
I do find that 'Maori' activist politicians can get up and spout complete nonsense, but nobody seems to hold them to account. "It's ok to not make sense, it's tikanga..." That, for sure, is the danger of 'special rights' and insulting to all other Kiwis with Maori links who do have a brain.
Thanks for making your submissions, written and oral.
What was the Chairman doing? Nothing obviously. SC’s today are just a chance for show ponies to play to the media. Imagine, however, the media outrage if Act & NZ First MPs behaved so disrespectfully toward TPM, Labour, & Green MPs. I have already gone on record saying I don’t support the TP Bill - I see the second principle as deeply flawed - however Act has every right to push it as far as they can, and Seymour must be praised for his fortitude.
Active listening, courtesy and debate that is reasoned is what should be expected in a Select com.ittee process. I have appeared in person in the past before an education ( cross party) Select Committee and got sensible and thoughtful questions asked of me and a naive one ( ftom Metiria Turei) but the atmosphere was respectful.
Thank you for forwarding that. I too share your respect for Chris Trotter - a man of real principle - and your concern for our future as a tolerant and democratic country.
I thoroughly enjoy most of Chris Trotter's posts. One wonders if he has swung from "left" to "right" of politics? Perhaps (probably) pragmatic... but then he occasionally reverts to type.
But his posts are well worth reading and they often include superior comments and opinions.
I have said for many years that I believe "democracy" as we know it has past its "use-by" value. Problems include an sadly uninformed electorate... partly due to youth (most 18-year-olds are not qualified to run their own lives much less make sensible voting decisions). But they're products of an ideological "education" instead of strict, informed pedagogy. Teachers seem no longer to have knowledge to pass on... focussing instead on indoctrination that they absorbed during their own "education".
Enfranchisement used to be viewed as a privilege that came with duties: not a "right" to be used and abused.
I've only just watched the video of your submission, and it seemed to me that Willie Jackson was implying bias in your sentencing, if not corruption. I can only echo Deborah Coddington's comment in wondering what on earth the chairman was thinking/doing. What a circus!
“For me my attitude towards democracy has shifted from an assurance that it flourished to an article of faith - I believe in it although there seems to be reducing evidence that it truly exists.” The money line. When our Speaker does not sanction those who perform a haka in the House after ripping up a Bill, by suspending them for many months, we have to acknowledge ‘Denmark’ has rotted … The only question to my mind is whether enough genuine “plebs” are sufficiently awake to oppose these destroyers of an institution centuries in the making …
It is unfortunate that you were treated disrespectfully. I see a video referred to but I didn't see it. I must admit if W Jackson featured behaving boorishly it does not surprise me. I have an intense dislike of him for a very personal reason I won't go into.
But what you and Trotter say brings to mind Voltaire even if, I now discover, he didn't say what he is most famous for saying, to whit: I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. Whether or not I really would die to defend your right to offer opinions with which I thoroughly disagree I am unsure. Would my courage fail me at the critical moment? Hopefully it does not come to that.