An interesting discussion. Coincidentally I only recently viewed that clip when it popped up on one of my feeds. It was indeed a good watch.
I remain convinced that western civilisation, built upon the religious morals and ethical frameworks of Judaism and Christianity, provides the best opportunity to humans for a functional and satisfying life. Sure, there are some other places that do quite well in terms of function (eg Japan), but they have their own issues. (Lovely people, but not as free culturally as the west.) Not many other cultures do anywhere near as well.
It all comes down to what one feels is the pivotal criterion (criteria perhaps) for a 'good life'. And as an ardent theist I subscribe to 'freedom' as the most important of 'gifts'. We were given that freedom (according to my worldview story...) and the rest is up to us. Without freedom, life cannot flourish. America is a beacon of light for the freedom of humanity. There have been a bunch of arseholes along the way, but its core values are the design of some wise heads.
I like Americans, many don't. They have some issues, occasionally a lack of external experience, but damn they are generally very good people. That was my experience at least over a half dozen visits.
Anyone who cherishes said freedoms, must surely share my desire for our western societies to return to our core values. The US (& NZ!) have indeed gone backwards, hopefully we have not fallen too far to recover.
But it can be. What's diminished the USA ? Post-modernism. It suggests that everything is a structure and that good and evil are the biggest constructs. MAGA. Look to Israel defending itself and defeating the mediaeval mullahs. But then look there and close to home at the destruction of the nuclear family - and our domestic construct of the whanau. The USA though is still exceptional - the city on the hill - because of its impeccable foundation.
Indeed - The Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights. I think in the clip Will McAvoy was mourning a lost America but a hope that America might be great again. Perhaps he was exponding a different vision/version or MAGA
The story is a nice myth. As Rugnarldo states there is a lot wrong with the USA and there always has been, including virtually exterminating the Native Americans, slavery and countless wars of aggression that continue until this day.
The mythical part of the US dream ticks many boxes but the very question "which is the greatest country in the world?" is self defeating. You might as well ask who's the greatest person in the world? And the right answer is that we are all equal and both us as individuals and in collectives can become worthy of praise if we aspire to great things while retaining humility and respecting others.
Respectfully, celebrating McAvoy’s rant as “brilliant” misses how fundamentally off-base his facts are—and this blog post compounds that error by treating it as a profound truth. I say this as a New Zealander and US citizen, America remains exceptional in the freedoms we guard, the universities we host, and the opportunity that draws people here in record numbers. If you buy into McAvoy’s misstatements about education, healthcare, or liberty, you’re falling for a well-crafted drama, not reality. For those interested in a point-by-point rebuttal, feel free to read this piece I wrote about the same segment in 2016: https://nkerr.com/america-not-great-rebuttal/
Looks like you started something David. I have a few thoughts about "greatest country in the world-ism" but not entirely thought through at this stage. As I read through all the comments I kept muttering to the various commenters "read or listen to Iain McGilchrist, and ditto Konstantin Kisin!" - both to be found in Substack and on YouTube and also via their books. Do want to say I used to enjoy Newsroom and your bringing it to our attention reminds me anew of how debased and lost the Western mainstream media have become - a reflection of the society of course.
How many other civilizations will be destroyed, before this overweening capitalist MIC empire will finally fall down, without any further rigor mortis?
Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria and maybe Iran next in line?
Isn't it already obvious that maintaining a single world hegemonic superpower is just not helpful or healthy for humanity???
Mind you, I'm still in love with the banjo, Bluegrass and Don Williams' songs, 😁😉🤣😆
Well, actually it's perhaps about definitions and personal preference. I don't really feel swayed by the emotional idealistic appeals.
It could well be the rationalist ideals and public deism that resulted in the rot within? Though others may opine that the thoroughgoing Puritanism spoiled the broth.....
Persia is one of the longest lasting civilizations, with a venerable inheritance of poetry, philosophy, prophecy, ....
China another. Arguably so was Mesopotamia. Damascus is perhaps the oldest extant city.
But closer to home, NZ is perhaps not so good for bringing up children as it used to be, though perhaps it's still better and safer than many other places,😱😏😁😆🤣
1. I would rather be speaking English and voting every three years and writing articles here and there than be speaking Japanese. Had it not been for the USA that possibility would be real. The Battle of the Coral Sea was frighteningly close to these shores.
2. I would rather have capitalism than communism or Chloe Swarbrick's woo-woo econmoics
I think you've got to look at the big picture. English as the lingua franca and the triumph of the liberal world view based on the ideals of Christianity.
Lets just get this straight right now. America was NEVER the greatest country in the world ok. This is the lie they sold you and the world and you still believe it. You're certainly the greatest predators in the world and the greatest genocidal nation or greatest psychopathic nation or nazi empire. Lets face it, your own people have blown the whistle. Substack is loaded with the revealations of american filth and fraud and now the global holocaust from america, killing millions, created, promoted and foistered on all by YOU AMERICA. YOUR CORPORATIONS...
YOUR GOVT.... YOUR PEOPLE. You cannot share the glory and then shift the blame. What made america great was the destruction of everyone else... and you all cheered. Well... It's reparation time for us all and your corporations OWE US BIGTIME. A century of fraud and lies. You fkd us all over and over and over. . Now you pay. We are coming for everything just like you took everything from us. You killed our ancestors. You forced our nation to submit to your evil. You poisoned our people's head with weaponised lies and made them sick with psyop slop food. You groomed our children with corporate weaponised brainwashing and now our people are dropping dead from your killshots. Greatest psychopathic murderers in the world.
Maybe you should review the clip. I must disagree with your rant and was tempted to mute it but my support for free speech and debate, albeit emotive, means you get your say. That was an enlightenment view that was incorporated into the First Amendment to the (wait for it) Constitution of the United States.
Nah, let him rant. A bunch of mindless drivel, but amusing that some people are just so caught up in their own pathetic bitterness that they can't see the beauty that America represents. Of course it is flawed, as are we all, and it should do better, but seems plenty of people are happy living there and plenty more want to.
2. Substack allows us to expound our points of view. It is ironic that it is based in San Francisco, CA, USA
3. As I say, review the clip and instead of attributing to me all the wrongs that you perceive are attributable mto the USA, perhaps you should take out a paid subscription to A Halflings View and read some of my stuff..
Terrorism is what made your america great. Now pop off and go and overthrow the Iranian leader for israel.. Yaaay america.... You're great at overthrowing eh. World's best. You even implanted jacunta ardern into my country to undertake your countrys transhumanist agenda. Awesome. 💩
Here's the equation. Rockefeller=kissinger=schwab=ardern. All your work. You're the greatest.....
One merely has to look at the work of the great american rockefeller conglomerate to discover the roots of the evil we all now face. Time you faced up too. Rockefeller=UN=WEF=Bilderburg=climate fraud=depopulation=transhumanist agenda. Etc etc etc.... Thanks groomerica 💩
An interesting discussion. Coincidentally I only recently viewed that clip when it popped up on one of my feeds. It was indeed a good watch.
I remain convinced that western civilisation, built upon the religious morals and ethical frameworks of Judaism and Christianity, provides the best opportunity to humans for a functional and satisfying life. Sure, there are some other places that do quite well in terms of function (eg Japan), but they have their own issues. (Lovely people, but not as free culturally as the west.) Not many other cultures do anywhere near as well.
It all comes down to what one feels is the pivotal criterion (criteria perhaps) for a 'good life'. And as an ardent theist I subscribe to 'freedom' as the most important of 'gifts'. We were given that freedom (according to my worldview story...) and the rest is up to us. Without freedom, life cannot flourish. America is a beacon of light for the freedom of humanity. There have been a bunch of arseholes along the way, but its core values are the design of some wise heads.
I like Americans, many don't. They have some issues, occasionally a lack of external experience, but damn they are generally very good people. That was my experience at least over a half dozen visits.
Anyone who cherishes said freedoms, must surely share my desire for our western societies to return to our core values. The US (& NZ!) have indeed gone backwards, hopefully we have not fallen too far to recover.
Nice one Boris. Thanks for your thoughts.
But it can be. What's diminished the USA ? Post-modernism. It suggests that everything is a structure and that good and evil are the biggest constructs. MAGA. Look to Israel defending itself and defeating the mediaeval mullahs. But then look there and close to home at the destruction of the nuclear family - and our domestic construct of the whanau. The USA though is still exceptional - the city on the hill - because of its impeccable foundation.
Indeed - The Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights. I think in the clip Will McAvoy was mourning a lost America but a hope that America might be great again. Perhaps he was exponding a different vision/version or MAGA
The story is a nice myth. As Rugnarldo states there is a lot wrong with the USA and there always has been, including virtually exterminating the Native Americans, slavery and countless wars of aggression that continue until this day.
The mythical part of the US dream ticks many boxes but the very question "which is the greatest country in the world?" is self defeating. You might as well ask who's the greatest person in the world? And the right answer is that we are all equal and both us as individuals and in collectives can become worthy of praise if we aspire to great things while retaining humility and respecting others.
Respectfully, celebrating McAvoy’s rant as “brilliant” misses how fundamentally off-base his facts are—and this blog post compounds that error by treating it as a profound truth. I say this as a New Zealander and US citizen, America remains exceptional in the freedoms we guard, the universities we host, and the opportunity that draws people here in record numbers. If you buy into McAvoy’s misstatements about education, healthcare, or liberty, you’re falling for a well-crafted drama, not reality. For those interested in a point-by-point rebuttal, feel free to read this piece I wrote about the same segment in 2016: https://nkerr.com/america-not-great-rebuttal/
Fair comment. I still like the clip and the sense it communicates. I thought the show aired around 2012 - 13
Looks like you started something David. I have a few thoughts about "greatest country in the world-ism" but not entirely thought through at this stage. As I read through all the comments I kept muttering to the various commenters "read or listen to Iain McGilchrist, and ditto Konstantin Kisin!" - both to be found in Substack and on YouTube and also via their books. Do want to say I used to enjoy Newsroom and your bringing it to our attention reminds me anew of how debased and lost the Western mainstream media have become - a reflection of the society of course.
Thanks for the comment Sheryl.
Agree with what you say about The Newsroom.
The same could be said for The West Wing as an idealized view of the White House and the Presidency.
Indeed!
How many other civilizations will be destroyed, before this overweening capitalist MIC empire will finally fall down, without any further rigor mortis?
Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria and maybe Iran next in line?
Isn't it already obvious that maintaining a single world hegemonic superpower is just not helpful or healthy for humanity???
Mind you, I'm still in love with the banjo, Bluegrass and Don Williams' songs, 😁😉🤣😆
Maybe you should view the clip and listen carefully to the articulation of the problems and what was but is no more.
Well, actually it's perhaps about definitions and personal preference. I don't really feel swayed by the emotional idealistic appeals.
It could well be the rationalist ideals and public deism that resulted in the rot within? Though others may opine that the thoroughgoing Puritanism spoiled the broth.....
Persia is one of the longest lasting civilizations, with a venerable inheritance of poetry, philosophy, prophecy, ....
China another. Arguably so was Mesopotamia. Damascus is perhaps the oldest extant city.
But closer to home, NZ is perhaps not so good for bringing up children as it used to be, though perhaps it's still better and safer than many other places,😱😏😁😆🤣
I think the sophomore's question in the clip was stated in the present rather than the past tense.
As to kids in NZ perhaps you should check out Matua Kahurangi's substack.
Both Persia and China are still extant civilizations (just for now....); as is India.
It's not clear that US will survive beyond the next 10 years. There is continuing discussion about several states breaking away from the union....
1. I would rather be speaking English and voting every three years and writing articles here and there than be speaking Japanese. Had it not been for the USA that possibility would be real. The Battle of the Coral Sea was frighteningly close to these shores.
2. I would rather have capitalism than communism or Chloe Swarbrick's woo-woo econmoics
I think you've got to look at the big picture. English as the lingua franca and the triumph of the liberal world view based on the ideals of Christianity.
Don't forget the Enlightenment
Lets just get this straight right now. America was NEVER the greatest country in the world ok. This is the lie they sold you and the world and you still believe it. You're certainly the greatest predators in the world and the greatest genocidal nation or greatest psychopathic nation or nazi empire. Lets face it, your own people have blown the whistle. Substack is loaded with the revealations of american filth and fraud and now the global holocaust from america, killing millions, created, promoted and foistered on all by YOU AMERICA. YOUR CORPORATIONS...
YOUR GOVT.... YOUR PEOPLE. You cannot share the glory and then shift the blame. What made america great was the destruction of everyone else... and you all cheered. Well... It's reparation time for us all and your corporations OWE US BIGTIME. A century of fraud and lies. You fkd us all over and over and over. . Now you pay. We are coming for everything just like you took everything from us. You killed our ancestors. You forced our nation to submit to your evil. You poisoned our people's head with weaponised lies and made them sick with psyop slop food. You groomed our children with corporate weaponised brainwashing and now our people are dropping dead from your killshots. Greatest psychopathic murderers in the world.
Maybe you should review the clip. I must disagree with your rant and was tempted to mute it but my support for free speech and debate, albeit emotive, means you get your say. That was an enlightenment view that was incorporated into the First Amendment to the (wait for it) Constitution of the United States.
Nah, let him rant. A bunch of mindless drivel, but amusing that some people are just so caught up in their own pathetic bitterness that they can't see the beauty that America represents. Of course it is flawed, as are we all, and it should do better, but seems plenty of people are happy living there and plenty more want to.
A little bit more on your comment.
1. I am not a citizen of the USA
2. Substack allows us to expound our points of view. It is ironic that it is based in San Francisco, CA, USA
3. As I say, review the clip and instead of attributing to me all the wrongs that you perceive are attributable mto the USA, perhaps you should take out a paid subscription to A Halflings View and read some of my stuff..
Well, for a self described 'Pacifican ornamental hermit and seer' you spout a lot of bee ess.
Terrorism is what made your america great. Now pop off and go and overthrow the Iranian leader for israel.. Yaaay america.... You're great at overthrowing eh. World's best. You even implanted jacunta ardern into my country to undertake your countrys transhumanist agenda. Awesome. 💩
Here's the equation. Rockefeller=kissinger=schwab=ardern. All your work. You're the greatest.....
Thanks for your contribution
One merely has to look at the work of the great american rockefeller conglomerate to discover the roots of the evil we all now face. Time you faced up too. Rockefeller=UN=WEF=Bilderburg=climate fraud=depopulation=transhumanist agenda. Etc etc etc.... Thanks groomerica 💩
Thanks for your contribution. The last line says it all.
Thankyou for your contribution also. WE are either for IT or against IT and i know which side I'm standing on and i trust who i stand with. 👍